Last modified: 20.1.1998
Building a rogue from scratch & some basic rogue
strats... - by Darksniper
Starting Out / Basic Tactics - by Lepthana (Snakegod)
Advanced Tactics: "Flee well, flee often" - by
Lepthana (Snakegod)
Advanced Tactics: Positioning - by Lepthana (Snakegod)
Advanced Tactics: Positioning - by Lok (Snakegod)
Raising a Rogue right - by Lepthana (Snakegod)
Attacking with Magic - by Lepthana (Snakegod)
Basic new-to-Hell rogue guidelines . . .
by A'n
Rogue damage formula + general rogue information
by John
Windforce/Eaglehorn/Merciless Bow of the Heavens
? by John
My (analytical) take :) by John
Rouge Tips - by Mary Kay
Friendly fire got you down ? (rogue teamwork tips)
- by ÐarkSniper
Eaglehorn/Windforce Analysis - by John
Bows I - Damage [Revised] (long) - by Da O'Toth
Point distribution
many have suggested that putting all points to dex and vit. this is true if u have a lot of help from friends or fellow clanmates. however, if ur doing this urself, put some on str as well, very important for wearing a bow and a decent piece of clothing. i got up to level 9 in church. killed the butcher 5 or 6 times. yes i used that stair trick. very easy i have to say. and cats from now on. it gives me enough money to buy more potions for my next trip and if i have left overs, i ll save it for my merciless bow of heaven one day =)
strategies r basically the same. the only thing that i m not use to is not being able to stone something. so its hit and run all the time.
it is an excellent idea to get a partner as well (thx ruby =). we kinda invented a trick. we were in cats and facing these big fat hugh whatever lords. so we would retreat to a hall way and wait.
-------------------------
L L
Ð
L
R
-------------------------
the lords will go to the player thats closest to em. so as soon as Ð sees the lords swinging, retreat to...
--------------------------
L Ð
LL R
--------------------------
and then keep shooting. keep alternating until they all die. many of u might not need to use this strat. but pls bare in mind that i was level 12 and ruby was level 7. so we werent exactly that strong. so we needed to work together.
bows selections:
first i found 2 bows of many, and after hitting a hidden shrine, its dur is 90. pretty nice for church. i can shoot like crazy and not have to worry about breaking my bow. now i m using a bow of maimoth, +5 damage i think. cos in cats u need damage against those lords. (damn, what r they called again...)
mana shield or not:
well, rite now, im not using it, cos i dont have sufficient manas to use it. so i go for caps that increases my vit, (cap of zes, smells good too ;) with the extra hp i can survive in cats easier. but sooner or later i d have to use mana shield.
spells:
the only spells the i used r, heal, town portal, and res. so dont bother with firebolt, or stuff like that, ur bow can probably do a better job. fire wall is a great help as well, but still havent found one yet =(
over all, building a rogue is pretty easy. especially in the earlier stages when u r in cats. always know when to retreat. boots maybe we can get in a game some time next week when we both reaches over 20 =) wait for me ok!
FROM THE START, the rogue's sustainable ability to destroy the slow-moving creatures who inhabit the church before they come within melee range makes her the most powerful character. A start-up rogue should have little trouble, other than against the Butcher and Skeleton King, with anything she faces in the church. This doesn't mean that she shouldn't keep her wits about her; there is still plenty of opportunity to become intimately aquainted with the dungeon floor. But basically, it shouldn't be difficult for her to distract herself from the immediate task at hand and begin to familiarize herself with the basic strengths and weaknesses of her class, and some basic tactics she should be employing.
The Strengths of the Rogue Class
--------------------------------
RANGED FIRE. This may seem obvious, but it's easy to forget. Regardless of what type of enemies she faces, the rogue needs to keep in mind at all times that her most effective attack is from a distance, and employ tactics which exploit that ability (I know what you're thinking, Zamp... that was a long time ago <G>).
FAST ATTACK. The rogue has the unique ability to effectively stun almost anything she hits more than once. Because of this, contrary to standard military doctrine, the rogue will often want to concentrate fire on the most powerful enemy she faces first, effectively removing it from the battle from the start.
BALANCE & VERSATILITY. There are no creatures which the rogue has a terrible time against; she takes on Obsidian Lords as well as a warrior, and Hell Spawns as well as a mage. She's a tough fighter who is perfectly capable of tossing her share of magical attacks as well. A successful rogue will learn all of her talents and the most opportune times to use each of them. There are a couple of other minor strengths not worth mention here.
The Weaknesses of the Rogue Class
---------------------------------
LOW DAMAGE. Aside from using a Messerschmidt's Reaver, a rogue is not going to do as much damage as a warrior, and even that would be nowhere near the firepower of a sorceror. Faster attack makes up for this somewhat in terms of overall damage dealing, but basically a rogue is going to have to be content to pepper her opponents rather than deliver knockout blows. Recognizing how long it will take to finish an opponent off is one of the most important things a rogue must learn to do.
LOW TOLERANCE. Because of the way the MAG and VIT stats translate into HP and mana, a rogue cannot expect to match a warrior or mage in terms of the ability to absorb damage. What this means, especially in light of the low damage weakness, is that a rogue must concentrate on defense. Because she's not going to be able to absorb much damage, she must do what it takes to minimize the damage she takes. The two most important statistical catergories for a rogue are magic resistances and AC. Sacrifice whatever it takes in terms of other statistics in order to get these (within reason).
Basic Tactics
-------------
BOTTLENECKING. It is much easier to take on a group of enemies one at a time than all at once. Thus, as a group of enemies approaches, setting up a bottleneck so that they can't all advance at once can be very effective. The most obvious and effective bottleneck is with a doorway in the church or catacombs. A less effective bottleneck can be achieved simply by forcing them through a narrower corridor or around a corner. Stone cursing in the proper places can not only immobilize the stoned enemies but get in the way of the others. Almost any obstacle will break up a group of monsters: some will get around it smooothly, but in the process they will block the path(s) of their cohorts. Learn to identify situations where you can turn a pack of enemies into a slow, steady stream of them, which can be dealt with more effectively.
LINES OF FIRE. Certain angles around corners and other obstructions
allow arrows to pass but not magic, or projectiles to pass in one direction
but not in the other. This is not something that can be
taught easily, you'll just have to figure these things out for yourself.
Do be aware of them, however, and learn to use them to your advantage as
much as possible.
BACK TO THE WALL. If bottlenecking fails or is not possible and you come face to face with a bunch of melee attackers, you can still minimize the number of them who can attack at once by standing next to a wall, or better yet, in a corner. Don't be foolish enough to stand and watch yourself become surrounded, get out of there and put your back to the wall before it ever happens.
STAY ON THE MOVE. Against ranged attackers, the best way to avoid being hit is to keep moving. You will, of course, have to stop to fight, but if fighting is not your primary goal, if you're looking for better positioning from which to fight, or if you employ fire-and-forget spells such as firewall, guardian, or golem, you can keep moving while killing your opponents. Don't move in straight lines; zigzagging will make it nearly impossible for any projectiles to find their marks.
FLEE WELL, FLEE OFTEN is the mantra of my own mentor (and friend and sometime pincusion), Ridcully. Ridcully is nothing more than a lowly sorceror, but in this case, he has something worth mention. There are any number of reasons to flee or retreat, and each should be dealt with differently.
Basic guidelines for all retreats
---------------------------------
TELEPORT. Teleport is the quickest way to get where you're going, but
it's usually a bad idea while under physical attack and a terrible idea
while under attack by another player. If you need to teleport
away from a bad situation, first take a step or two away from the heat
of the battle and then do it. Phasing is also a good alternative, although
I dislike adding random variables like where I'm going to end up into my
battles.
MONSTER DIFFERENCES. When running from monsters, keep in mind their speed and behavior. Some monsters are faster than others; you can use this to your advantage by running, taking out the faster ones, and then dealing with the slower monsters. Some monsters can follow you from further distances and around more complex obstacles than others. Be aware of what type of enemy you face and what its abilities and limitations are.
KEEP YOUR MAP OPEN. You don't want to make a mistake and retreat right into some place you haven't been already, opening up a whole new can of worms. Keeping your map open will keep you from making stupid mistakes and taking wrong turns into unexplored areas, dead ends, and other places you don't want to be.
The types of retreats
---------------------
GET THE HELL OUT OF DODGE. I'm sure we've all had those times when you're surrounded by blood knights, two dozen soul burners are pelting you, and that PK just came around the corner and started unloading fireballs into your back. Don't be a fool and try and fight; it's time to consider a new occupation as a peaceful farmer in the countryside. Run, phase, and teleport (in that order) until you're clear of the mess, jump in your portal, exit the game and never look back. I don't approve of using "New Game" to get out of a sticky situation, but don't be afraid to leave a level and not come back to it. Sometimes there are obsticles we can't overcome; recognize these situations, and don't press your luck.
OUT OF POTIONS. There's two subcategories here: when you run out of
potions on your belt, either you have more in your pack or you don't. If
you are down to only the potions on your belt, you should be aware of that
ahead of time and be much more cautious. You never know what might pop
up behind the next corner, so be ready ahead of time to hotfoot it out
of there if there's too much for you to handle on one belt. In the event
that you do engage a big group and are guzzling potions, be ready to run
ahead of time; don't wait until you've completely run out of pots, get
out while you still have some staying power left. If you've run out of
potions on your belt, but have more in your pack, obviously you just need
to buy yourself the time to get those potions transferred to your belt.
It pays to have friends who'll cover your retreat while you do this. Make
sure they understand the situation, though. It pays to have a text hotkey
that says something to the effect of "I need to fall back and reload my
belt, I'll be back!". Otherwise your companions may see your retreat as
a full-scale flee, and may decide to run away themselves. They may anyway;
they may not be able to hold back the hordes without your help. Remember
that if the battle has been big enough to use up your whole
belt, it's probably taking it's toll on your friends' potion supplies
as well. Get those potions to your belt quickly, and only as many as you
think you'll need for the present situation. If you can handle
the rest of the battle with only four, don't waste your precious time
getting all eight in place. The fastest way I have found to transfer potions
to my belt is to open inventory, drop the potions on the
ground, close inventory, and pick up the potions. This gets them automatically
in the proper places on the belt without requiring any exacting mouse moves
to and from the belt. Some warnings about this
technique, though: don't do it when there are any monsters nearby,
as they tend to stand on the potions and make them inaccessible. Also,
don't try it in multiplayer games with medium to heavy lag- it can take
considerable time for you to pick them up.
HIGHER GROUND. Usually when you first make contact with a group of enemies you're not in the best position possible to defend yourself (a notable exception is opening a door into melee opponents). Retreating around a corner or into a corner is usually advised once you make contact with enemies. There's no reason to push a bad position; fall back a little and fight the battle on your own terms. This isn't difficult when going solo; when playing cooperatively with others, it can be tricky to coordinate. All too often a group will be fighting and overextend itself or get too spread out in a large area to be truly effective. My most valuable text hotkey is F10: "Retreat & Regroup!!". This tells everyone to fall back so that we can fight together in a better postion, rather than spread out in an open area. This is incredibly effective; times when each individual is in serious trouble they can take on the same opponents much more easily as a group.
STICK N' MOVE. This is the defining tactic for the rogue class. Because you can strike from a distance but can't absorb many hits, the best way to take on melee attackers is to never let them get near you. Once they start coming at you, plink out a shot or two, then move back a few paces and plink a couple more times. Rinse, repeat. This tactic is made even more powerful by mixing in the stone curse spell. Plink, plink, stone, move, plink, plink, stone, move... this formula will allow you to wear down on big packs of oncoming monsters before they even get close. Remember to keep in mind how much real estate you have to work with when using this tactic. It's not wise to lead a pack of monsters back to the base of the stairs you arrived on the level from. If you've already cleared out a good portion of the level, use it all if you have to. However, if you've only got a small bit of ground to work with, you may have to go back and forth over the same area. Work your way one way, and then when backed against the wall, teleport behind the monsters and start working your way in the other direction. If you keep stoning as you do this, you can have a wonderous time splitting up, misdirecting, and picking off monsters. What was a tight knot of knights can be turned into a scattered and confused display of the limitations of AI.
SPACE. As any chessmaster worth his pawns will tell you, space is once
of the key elements of his game. The space to manuver and attack in is
vital to success; you must maximize your own space and minimize the space
available to your opponent. I think that the key to understanding where
to fight from in Diablo rests on the manipulation of the space available
to fight from. As a rouge, your primary concern must be defense. Which
means that in terms of space, you should be primarily concerned with reducing
your enemies' space. That does not mean that you should ignore your own
space; always stay where you can get to your own manuvering space if
necessary. But, if you have decided that you need to stop and fight, the
spot you choose should be a defensive position. I can not overstate the
advantage gained simply by standing next to a wall. By standing next to
a wall, you effectively cut the battlefield in half; now your opponents
have half as much space to work with. Not
only that, but it tends to disrupt the behaviors of certain monsters.
For example, a typical drake behavior is to try and avoid ranged fire by
not coming straight at you. Instead, they typically take a path like this:
D
|
\
|
|
/
R
Which allows them to approach without moving on a direct line towards you. However, if there's a wall in the way...:
W
DW
|W
|W
|W
|W
|W
RW
W
The drake will often move along it in a straight line towards you, making
it much easier to hit. Another interesting case about walls comes into
play with witches and goatmen archers (mages and skeleton
archers don't tend to follow you to shoot at you). If you round a corner
with some witches on your tail, they don't turn the corner very well; the
wall becomes an excellent defensive screen. For
example, a rogue turns a corner into a healthy group of witches:
W MMM M M
W MM M M
M
W M M
W R WWWWWWWW
W
W
WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW
If she ducks back behind the corner up against the wall, the following will happen:
W
W
W MM MMM
WM MMMMWWWWWWWW
W MM R
W
WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW
In this situation, only 2-4 of the 12 witches now have a clear shot
at the rogue. They tend to bunch up when given an obstacle because they
all think independently; once one has a clean shot, she stops,
blocking the way of her fellows. Walls also tend to break up the circling
tendencies of many monsters, such as balrogs, storm lords, and horned demons.
These monsters can be difficult to hit as they circle around you; standing
next to a wall will stop them from doing this. Of course, why be satisfied
with just one wall when you can stand next to two? Standing in a corner
cuts the battlefield in fourth, and allows only three melee opponents [This
doesn't apply to the caves, where the walls are not necessarily even. Often
there are hidey-holes which you can duck into which offer even more protection]
to attack at once. Just remember that if you stand in a corner and get
surrounded my monsters, the only way out is to teleport, which can be risky.
Stick yourself in the corner only if you are sure you don't need to do
any more running away. Obstacles which protrude into the field of battle,
such as columns, dead bodies on pikes or walls, and <those weird horn-looking
things which stick out of the ground in Hell>, must be noted. I don't
know how many times I've been getting pounded and started firing only to
notice too late that I was firing right into a dead body. These things
can be very annoying to have to work around; on the other hand, if used
properly, they can be an asset. They, too, block out a piece of the battlefield,
and can be particularly useful in blocking ranged fire while you deal with
melee attackers. Each circumstance is different, so I can't give much specific
advice on this matter, just be on the lookout for these things and learn
how you can use them to your advantage.
Positioning while playing cooperatively with others
---------------------------------------------------
When playing cooperatively as a rogue or even with a rogue in the group,
all involved must be cautious about where they stand or someone will end
up having a nice new suit of feathers. What the
rogue needs is a clean line towards the enemy, but often her companions
need to stand in and cross this line. First of all, don't fire at an enemy
if your friend is standing directly behind it, especially if there's a
rogue behind it also firing. When that monster dies, you're sure to pelt
the person standing behind it with a few extra arrows. Learn the angles
from which you can attack a monster right next to
your friends without hitting them. It's hard to discribe here, but
it's not difficult to learn in a game. Just try all the different possibilities,
remember them, use them. In general, I think the rogue's most effective
position in terms of a group is on the flanks. From a position to the side
and slightly forward of her companions, a rogue can assail a group of enemies
without worrying about hitting her friends. Be careful when taking this
position, lest you get too far forward and draw all the monsters' attention
to yourself. This allows you to fire parallel to the line of friendly forces,
which is not likely to endanger them. How to get into this position? My
feeling is that the best way to do it is to hang to the rear of the party
while travelling. Once contact is made with the enemy, let the battle develop
for a second or two. Then, when the battle starts to shape up, teleport
a couple spaces forward of your companions and off to the side. Most of
the monsters should already have been drawn to your friends, so unless
you've selected a position too far from the traveled way, you shouldn't
face too much heat by going further forward than the rest of the group.
1. Willpower's witch trick
If you turn the corner and stand at 1, witches will freeze and not fire, yet you can hit them. 1 is the magic spot- one step in from a corner against the wall.
#
#
###########
1
2. Orthogonal lines of fire
What works for me is positioning for orthogonal (perpendicular) lines of fire. This avoids pummeling your buddy. If your friend has established a line of fire, flank to get an orthogonal line to his. This avoids friendly fire. Consider Rogue, r, and Mage, m, take up points outside a door. Rogue pumps them into the door and is in a direct line (since her firepower is weak and she needs more shots). Mage camps and kills anything which crosses the threshold. This is a good arrangement when you have a stopping power imbalance. Experience is roughly equal. If mage and rogue were reversed, rogue would get less experience.
###### ######
m
r
(OR)
This one works well when you have two ranged attackers of the same kind in the party. Shown are two rogues, r, targeting a doorway in a crossfire. Both of them are exposed to the mobs and the intensity of the fire is greatest at the crossing point.
###### x ######
/ \
/ \
r r
For two rogues, this can compensate for the weak stopping power of
a rogue and actually mow down a bunch of mobs. Here a doorway choke point
is shown, but establishing a crossfire at any chokepoint will work. For
two mages, this splits the experience better.
3. Retreat- the scrape-off. If you retreat past your warrior in the party, the mobs swarm the warrior (who usually is happy to be surrounded by mobs, unless he has an ac problem). This gives the warrior some experience, and lets you reposition.
4. Lag, connections, and stray shots- I observe choppy play many times where my buddies make 'quantum leaps'- they are at position a, then all of a sudden they are at position b without using teleport or moving between the two. I think this is an internet lag thing, and this can be a huge problem as you can begin firing at one seemingly safe postion, only to have an update occur and find you are pounding your buddy. Sometimes you are firing at a mob in position a, and the game updates you and the mob is now at postion b (without moving) right next to your buddy.
The only thing you can do to alleviate this is to conserve your bowfire. Don't just stand there pumping an endless stream of arrows into thin air. Only fire while your mob is targetted, and only continue to fire while your mob is living. You tend to get into trouble by holding down the shift key and firing as fast as you can all over the place. Your screen may update to show a dead mob and your buddy pinned by your excess bowfire.
A trick that seemed to help me when I was playing a rogue was to avoid using the shift key where possible. Sure, when you have killed a mob you will get an occasional extra shot zinging off into the unknown, but you will not get an extra 5 shots into empty space like you do if you hold down the shift key. Every arrow that doesnt hit a mob has (1) a chance of hitting your buddy, (2) a chance of activating more offscreen mobs than you can handle, and (3) a chance to reduce your bow's durability. Conserve your shots.
When you don't use the shift key, you run the risk of running forward - simply immediately click backwards or off to the side and you do a little dodge after each killed mob. This extra movement can be beneficial if you are fighting ranged mobs like witches, as you do not want to be a stationary in the open field.
EARLIEST LEVELS. As I stated before, at the very earliest levels, the rogue is easily the most powerful character. She should have no problem skipping level 1 of the church altogether and heading straight to level 2 for much better XP and gold. The key, in my mind, to a rogue's early sucess is the healing spell. Once she aquires this, she is much less dependent on potions, which can be costly early on. Don't try and take on the Butcher without help until you're about level 10 or so... that is, unless you can trap him on the wrong side of a portcullis, which is not too difficult against the stupid Butcher. The Skeleton King you should not try and take on without the holy bolt spell, as his armor is very tough to get an arrow through.
About level 10-12 (depending on your equipment, I reccommend 20 or so AC) you should be able to handle the early part of the catacombs. Take it easy, as the cats have a tendency to be pretty easy most of the time only to confront you with huge challenges from out of nowhere. Watch out for Deathspit (unique spitter on level 6), he can be a handful. You might want to be a little more powerful before you venture down to levels 7 and 8, as the night clan there can be nasty. By level 15 you can probably take on the caves, again, depending on equipment. Like the cats, the caves are usually pretty tame, especially as a rogue if you can use the lava flows to your advantage. However, the caves offer no place to hide. The wide open areas and lack of corridors, corners, and doors make it a dangerous place to be if you run into more than you can handle.
In the late "teens", you'll face something of a plateau, as you won't be getting much XP from the caves, but you won't be able to handle Hell just yet either. The only advice I can give you is to press on in the caves until you reach level 20 and can go to nightmare/church and nightmare/cats. Not until your mid-20's will you be prepared for normal/Hell (experienced players can do it much earlier, but if you've never played a rogue in Hell before, you'll need to bulk up some). The problem you will face your first trip or two into Hell is that the only place to find really good items, jewelry in particular, is in Hell itself. Particularly in the magic resistance catergory, you're likely to be weak. Even if it's just a topaz ring, get yourself some minimal magic resistance. The reason is that if you have 0% resistance, magical attacks are treated like physical ones, which means that you will recoil from every hit (it also means that if you have a shield you can block these attacks, but it's not worth it, trust me, I've tried). When facing a pack of witches, this can be deadly. With even a little resistance, magic attacks will still hurt, but they won't slow you down; you can even cast healing and other spells safely while under fire.
Through the mid-late 20's your adventuring should mostly be in normal/Hell,
as this is where you can not only get good XP, but find the equipment you'll
need to become more powerful (in case you hadn't noticed, equipment is
as much if not more important than your character attributes). Once you
hit level 26 and Adria will sell you elixers, visit her every time you
go to town and check for elixers, particularly dexterity. If need be, go
shopping specifically for these elixers, because it's going to take about
150 of them to max out your stats. Which brings me to the next topic...
ABILITY POINTS. When passing levels, you must decide where to put your ability points. In the foolishness of my youth, I'd put them on strength or magic just so I could use the set of armor or book I'd just found. This is a bad practice in the long run. My advice is to get a system and stick with it. Unfortunately, it's not as clear cut as the warrior or mage, because even at low levels you're going to need all of your abilities. My system (and it works quite well) is every level to put one point on each of STR, MAG, and VIT, and two on DEX. Once strength reaches 35-40, I'll stop upping that and wait for the proper elixers, then put that extra point on DEX. When MAG reaches 45 or so, I stop adding to magic and add to vitality instead. Using this system, I figure you will max all your stats sometime around level 35-36, earlier if you're particularly eager about elixer shopping.
As I mentioned in the first lesson, the rogue has many weapons at her disposal, not the least of which is magic. By learning it's proper usage, she can greatly increase her potency. Although it is always possible, sometimes practical, and often great fun, to equip yourself like a mage and use magic exclusively, for the purposes of this lesson, assume you are armed with a bow. The question becomes then, why not just use the bow? Ask yourself, what are the advantages and disadvantages of each spell over a bow? Every attack spell has two disadvantages to be considered. One, spells cost mana to use, and firing a bow doesn't. Two, casting spells takes much longer. They all do have the advantage, though, however slight, of not using up durability on your bow.
FIREBOLT. This spell is marginally useful at the very lowest of levels. When your arrows do 1-4 damage and you can do a whopping 10 points of damage with this spell, there are instances where it can come in handy. But once your arrow damage starts to go up and you get better spells, the honeymoon is over for this one.
CHARGED BOLT. Another spell which is marginally useful at very low levels, but only against groups of enemies. The poor accuracy and slowness of the bolts make it not as good as a bow against single opponents.
HOLY BOLT. This spell is again only useful at low levels, and only (obviously) against undead. It's primary utility comes in defeating the Skeleton King, whose previously mentioned armor is tough to get an arrow through. It is basically like firebolt, except that it does better damage, costs less mana, and only works on undead. It also works on Diablo himself, but a bow works much better for that particular circumstance.
INFERNO. Hmmm... I've never actually bothered to use this spell, I don't think :). I suppose it is a bit better than firebolt at short range, but still, not a very effective spell. Lightning is essentially the same thing, only better.
FIRE WALL. The mainstay of the mid-level character, this spell can be extremely useful even for high level characters. Putting up a wall of flame is especially helpful from a rogue's standpoint- either the monsters walk through the flames and risk being burned or they stand behind it and wait as you pelt them with arrows. Ranged fire attackers won't move out of the flames if you cast it directly on them, so it can be useful against groups of these. An overlooked of fire wall is its capacity to turn corners. When approaching a corner, if you suspect that there are monsters hiding just around the bend, cast this spell directly in front of yourself, centered right at the corner. The wall will strech down the corridor you have yet to explore, wounding and potentially killing things there before you even meet them. Of course, the drawback to firewall as you reach higher levels is simply that it lasts too long, and is an annoyance to work around once its usefulness is over.
LIGHTNING. The lightning spell can be useful at mid-levels in taking down multiple enemies in a straight line. Particularly useful against tight packs of monsters such as is seen when unique monsters are present, or in narrow corridors. However, it's generally less effective than bowfire against single enemies.
FLASH. Hmmm... never used this one either. I suppose if you're screwing around, trying out funny different ways to kill things, you could go with this spell. Although the damage is good, to be truly effective, you'd have to let yourself get surrounded... which you shouldn't be doing :).
ELEMENTAL. Cool looking spell, and a pretty good one, but fireball is better because of the blast damage and lower casting cost (there are some cases where elemental could be better, but even in these cases, the difference isn't much). Use that instead.
FIREBALL. Fireball can do much more damage than an arrow shot, but it is much slower to use and less accurate. Therefore, you should look for the following situation before you decide to unload a fireball: 1) stationary target, 2) no fire resistance (otherwise you're really not going to do that much more damage than a bow), and 3) monsters grouped together so that they'll get hit by blast damage. What does this picture describe? Witches! The best use of fireball I've found is against snow witches, succubi, and hell spawn in normal/nightmare mode and snow witches in hell difficulty. But basically anything fireball can kill in one hit is a good target for a fireball. Because the fireball is so much slower though, don't treat it like an arrow in terms of being able to fling it all over the place. It's better to take your time and line up a good shot before blasting.
FLAME WAVE. A good spell in a few respects, and a poor one in others.
However much it might look like a contiguous wave of flames, things have
the tendency to quite often slip past it without taking any damage. I believe,
although I have not tested it, that anything moving between "squares" on
the game grid will not be hit by
flame wave. Stationary targets will also sometimes be passed by by
this spell, inexplicably. Needless to say, there are some bugs in the game
code regarding this spell, which make it less useful than it should be.
However, you can still get some good use out of it, particularly if you
don't yet have some of the other spells. I use it
sometimes on the wide open spaces of level 16 to clean up the lightning-immune
monsters there.
CHAIN LIGHTNING. An excellent spell. Not particularly useful against
a few enemies, but very useful against groups of monsters. Be wary that
many enemies resist or are immune to lightning, which is perhaps this spell's
one drawback in terms of solo play. Although it is not going to deliver
the same kind of damage as a fireball, it can do it to many, many enemies
at once. Watch out for the "sprite limit" when casting a high level chain
spell on numerous enemies, as it will cause breaks in the bolts where damage
will not be dealt. The best way to deal with this is to stand next to a
wall or in a corner so as to funnel the bolts together, reducing the number
of sprites involved. Chain lightning can also have a reconassaince purpose,
because it will be directed at any monsters nearby, regardless of any walls
that
might be in the way. So if you cast chain while next to a wall and
many bolts of lightning fly at that wall, it's likely there's quite a number
of monsters on the other side.
Avoid using chain lightning in cooperative play situations unless you are sure no friends are nearby. Just when you think it's safe to cast this spell, a bolt will head off in the wrong direction and fry your comrades.
GUARDIAN. An underrated spell. The only real drawback to it for a rogue is the high mana cost to cast it. Guardians are most effective (in terms of damage dealing) when used several at a time. They do a great job of slowing down and weakening a mob of monsters. Guardian also has the best effective range of any spell (golem can technically do better, but not reasonably). Know that there's some monsters just off your screen, but don't want to move over that way to attack them? Cast some guardians at the edge of your screen, and watch from safety as they fry the enemy.
Guardian also has the corner-turning effect that I mentioned for firewall earlier. Cast a guardian just around the corner to see what's there. If it starts firing and hitting, stay behind the corner and wait for whatever it is to come out and play. In this way you can entice monsters to come at you one at a time, so they're easy to dispatch. If it's firing and missing, hotkey over to your chain lightning spell before going around the corner. If it's not firing, you know that the way is clear.
GOLEM. Costs tons of mana to use, and doesn't do all that much for a rogue. A toy really, although it does have the corner-turning ability outlined above. Guardian will usually be better for that, though.
BONE SPIRIT. About the only decent use for this spell I've heard is killing cheaters who have thousands of HP. Never tried that myself, though.
BLOOD STAR. Less damage than an arrow, slower attack than an arrow, and costs much life/mana to use. So why use it?
NOVA. Can do big, big damage at point-blank range, but in general, it's not as good as chain lightning and not worth carrying around scrolls/staff anyway.
APOCALYPSE. Whenever I find a scroll of Apoc I carry it around until I see a nice big group of monsters to use it on. But it's not so great, and even staves of apoc typically have only 10 charges (bountiful ones can have more). I wouldn't waste my time carrying one around (plus you'll probably need extra +magic just to use it) just to use it now and then, except when it's just for kicks.
The classic fall back Rogue strategy. Plunk a few arrows into a room, let the critters come out, fall back to a safe area, plunk'em some more. Cast fire wall or guardian -- this will weaken the enemy by the time they reach you. Chain is good, but it also activates monsters. Careful when using in harder difficulty levels. The bane of a Rogue is swarms and open areas. Always have an escape hatch in a safe area. If worse comes to worse, quickly cast TP to escape the heat. Sneak back to the hot area via stairs if possible. (im morally opposed to death.) Also, keep some rejuvs handy in case you let your mana shield drop.
When playing with others, stand like this::
w s
y-- r
the y is the monster(s). . w = warrior, r=rogue s=mage. You won't
shoot your compadre in the butt this way.
Hope this helps :)
A rogue's base damage goes as (Str+Dex) * Level / 200. So unless you need the extra Str to wear armor, concentrate on increasing your Dex (which will also help your hit%, your AC, and maybe a couple other subtle things in the game).
The highest damage of any bow is a merciless long war bow of the heavens. There's some debate as to whether this can actually be bought from Wirt.
The highest damage unique bow is Windforce. 1-14 base damage +200%, +5 str, and knockback. If you're below L27 or so, Windforce actually does more damage than an average merciless long war bow of the heavens. Then again, if you're about L45, a merciless short war bow of the heavens will do more damage than Windforce. :-)
The other good unique bow is Eaglehorn, 1-10 base damage +100%, +50%
to hit, +20 dex, indestructible. Because a rogue does so little damage,
bows tend to wear out faster than other weapon, so having an indestructible
bow is quite nice. At higher levels, Eaglehorn's damage isn't the
best, but it's a very good combination
of good damage and high hit%, plus it's indestructible (around L35,
I used to average two bow repair trips per level in hell/hell).
Don't bother with the Needler or bows of swiftness or readiness - there is no speed improvement.
The best easily obtainable bow is a massive/savage long war bow of the heavens/stars. Griz will sell this. But once you get to around L30, your base damage is so high the bow only makes about a 5%- 20% difference in total damage. So you really have to tailor your bow choice to your play style.
Max stats are 55 Str, 70 Mag, 250 Dex, and 80 Vit. Most of the
L35-L40 rogues seem to do 90-100 points damage per arrow on average.
The best I've seen reported is around 120 average (legit). The damage
formula makes to hard to get much higher. The rogue fires as fast
as a warrior swings a sword of haste, so just remember that your time savings
is coming from not having to run around to chase the monsters. OTOH,
you do have a lot more clicking to do. Learn to use
spells too. I usually fireball the witches instead of wasting
time shooting each one. For more fun, once you get around L35, try
using a sword+shield.
> No offense but IMHO, both windforce and eaglehorn sucks. You would do better with a savage bow of heavens or a merciless bow of heavens.
While I wouldn't go quite so far as saying these bows suck, I do agree with you.
Windforce: 1-14 +200%, +5 str, knockback
effective damage: 3-42, 22.5 avg; +5 str = 0.025 dam/level =1
point damage for lvl 40 rogue
Eaglehorn: 1-10 +100%, +50% hit, +20 dex, indestructible
effective damage: 2-20, 11 avg; +20 dex = 0.1 dam/level = 4 points
damage for lvl 40 rogue
Savage bow of heavens: 1-14 +120%, +13 all (being realistic here)
effective damage: 2.2 - 30.8, 16.5 avg; +13 all = 0.13 dam/level
=5.2 points damage for lvl 40 rogue
Merciless bow of heavens: 1-14 +160%, +13 all
effective damage: 2.6 - 36.4, 19.5 avg; +13 all = as above
And so I can make a point:
Merciless bow of heavens: 3-7 +175%, +15 all
effective damage: 8.2 - 19.2, 13.7 avg; +15 all = 0.15 dam/level
= 6 points damage for lvl 40 rogue
Merciless bow of heavens: 4-8 +175%, +15 all
effective damage: 11-22, 16.5 avg; +15 all = as above
So overall for a lvl 40 rogue:
Windforce: 23.5 avg dam, +5 str, knockback
Eaglehorn: 15 avg dam, +4 AC, +60% hit, indestructible
SlwBoH:21.7 avg dam, +2.6 AC, +6.5% hit, +13 str, +19.5 mana, +19.5
health
MlwBoH:24.7 avg dam, +2.6 AC, +6.5% hit, +13 str, +19.5 mana, +19.5
health
MsbBoH:19.7 avg dam, +3 AC, +7.5% hit, +15 str, +22.5 mana, +22.5 health
MswBoH:22.5 avg dam, +3 AC, +7.5% hit, +15 str, +22.5 mana, +22.5 health
Keep in mind a naked lvl 40 rogue has a base damage of 61. With equipment it's usually around 80-90.
So as you can see, all of these bows are right up there with Windforce in average damage for a high level rogue. Add in the +str, +AC, +hit%, +mana, and +health, and I think a bow of the heavens is the way to go. Also, don't pass on a merciless bow of the heavens just because it's not a long war bow. Even a merciless short battle bow of the heavens does just 3.8 points less damage than Windforce (about 4% difference in total damage for a lvl 40 rogue with equipment), and has the other nice bonuses associated with the heavens suffix.
I don't like the of burning (8.5 avg dam) or of thunder (10.5 avg dam)
suffixes because most everything in hell/hell resists or is immune to fire
and lightning. I'd rather have a heavens suffix whose +15 all gives
me about 6 points extra damage regardless of resistances.
> I'd like to know if their is a better bow than windforce second is there a King bow of haste? PLEASE write a list of the best bows, thanx
The readiness/swiftness suffix on a bow doesn't speed up a rogue's attack any so haste probably doesn't either. Therefore it'd be a waste to have a bow of haste.
Blizzard claims King's bows are possible. Warrior's bows are readily
found. A couple people have claimed to have found a Soldier's bow.
I've never seen anyone claim anything better except under suspicious circumstances
(i.e. "a friend said he found," or "a friend found in a game I was in"
and almost always a King's bow,
not a Lord's or Master's or Champion's - a telltale sign of a hack).
[remark by JB: Recently, there was a post on Ogden's about a King's
Bow of the Heavens, together with a link to the IDing pic - It was a fake,
the writer first offered a pic without the "+x to all attributes" text
and when I remarked that in a follow-up, he changed the picture accordingly
:-) I still have the original jpg if you are interested ...]
For a L40 rogue, Windforce does an average 23.5 damage, gives +5 to str, and knocks back.
For a L40 rogue, a merciless long war bow of the heavens (+160% +15) does 25.5 damage, gives +15 to str, +7% to hit%, +3 to AC, +7 to mana, and +7 to life. You can see why the heavens suffix is so popular.
For a L40 rogue, a merciless short war bow of the heavens (+160% +15) does 21.6 damage, and gives the same plusses as above. A subtle advantage of this bow over the long war bow variant is the smaller damage range (damage = 21.6 +/- 5.2; vs. for a long war bow 25.5 +/- 16.9). I need to grind some probabilities to see how much of an advantage this is. Basically it means you can fire exactly as many arrows as you need to kill before switching targets with this bow, thus having fewer strays (good time-management, good for your teammates).
Eaglehorn is pretty much an indestructible master's long battle bow of precision (+20 dex). It's a nice combo of +hit% and +damage% that's difficult to find on any other bow. And it's indestructible to boot. Unfortunately, for an L40 rogue, it's only 15 average damage. Indestructible is nice, but recently I've been finding lots of thinking caps (8 so far...) and have taken to wielding a bow when I touch hidden shrines. I've gotten my merciless short war bow of thunder up to 75 durability, enough so I'm starting to use it again in hell/hell if there are lightning-vulnerables (at 55 durability, I'd often have to repair my bow long before I ran out of potions).
Merciless bow of thunder/burning... It's great in normal or nightmare
mode. But in hell mode, nearly everything resists or is immune to
lightning or fire. Thunder is only 10.5 extra damage on average.
Burning is 8.5. For a L40 rogue, the heavens +15 suffix equals 6
points extra damage regardless of resistances, and you get
all the nice bonuses to other stats.
Weird/strange bows. When people say you can keep monsters in a stun lock better in hell/hell with these bows, they're right. Without one of these bows, if you try to kill an advocate, you'll likely miss once or twice and get nailed by fireballs. But when's the last time you've faced just one monster in hell/hell? Often you face a horde, so I'm more partial to stoning everything in sight, then shooting. These bows have their place though in duels.
Emerald bow of <something>... One of the biggest problems a
rogue has is maxing all resists. A royal circlet is the best helm,
but you get no resists from it. You want saintly/awesome/holy/godly
full plate so you can't get any resists from that. You use a bow
so you can't get resists from a shield. So you have to get all your
resists off jewelery. You also want to wear full plate so you
need to get +35 str from your jewelery (+25 if using RC). It's damned
difficult to find obsidian rings/amulets as it is, much less in combo with
something that'll give you +25 or +35 to str. There are two ways
out of this - an emerald bow or a bow of the heavens. The first doesn't
get you any extra damage, the latter does. So a bow of the heavens
is better, but if you can't find one, an emerald bow is good too.
Be prepared to pay an arm and a leg for repairs though.
Make sure you use a light foundation. Don't overdo it - you just want a touch of color, not clown cheeks. If you use lipstick (you should), use a soft-tone magenta. With practice, even a rogue can look good.
Tanya, 24, a rogue, was having problems with Bash, her fiancé.
Bash, a handsome warrior, 25, was much too involved in his job of liberating
a small town of evil demons and monsters, and sometimes he did not notice
her as she skulked along walls. "It was Hell, a Nightmare," says
Tanya. "I was about ready to return his
Ring of Engagement." We gave Tanya a makeover using rouge, and
replaced her no-nonsense Cap of Darkness with a more carefree Helm of Radiance
to show off her reddish ponytail. It seems to have worked - Bash
now allows her to participate in many of his business situations.
"He even opens doors for me," says Tanya,
"and he lets me use my skills on some of the more difficult financial
acquisitions." She is so happy now, she may no longer need the rouge
to color her cheeks.
Tanya, take a bow.
well, here another take to try to get into Var's site =) [it sure worked :-) ]
as u might know, i ve started a new rogue. learned a lot from it. (and i mean a lot) especially dealing with other players. cos these low level characters cant take too many shots on their back. so i have to be extra careful with where i put my bullseye. with the help of lag, u can kill a warrior in 2-3 shots on their screen.
rogue & warrior:
this would be one of the hardest combos. u have to move around to compansate
with the warrior. do not blamn the warrior if he walks infront of ur arrows
cos they just cant help it. unlike rogues, a lot of warriors dont use their
shift key, which means they move from place to place. so in a situation
filled with drakes and knights, u
have 2 options.
1) leave it for the warrior. they r made to handle such a situation. do not try to help by shooting the monsters around them, unless u have a really high to hit and u know that monster wont die any sec. u would probably do more damage to the warrior if u take a shot at the group. 1) u might hit the warrior and kill him. 2) u might hit the warrior but then the warrior blocks the arrow and gets attacked by the drakes, and one after another hes dead, nice mk strat.
2) join the warrior. very risky, only do this if u have a high enough ac to handle the melee monsters. u locate urself rite next to the warrior and shoot. this way, ur chances of hitting the warrior is minimized. and u can gain some exp on the way as well. if the level is filled with melee and ranged. of course, warriors would take the melee, and rogue will take the ranged. tell ur warriors leave the ranged monster to u. dont go chase after the witches as this means more arrows to their back. if the level is filled with all ranged. then, tell the warrior to sit down and take a nap =) or just skip the level. if ur warrior is brave enough, split up.
rogue & mages
this set up is very easy. if the mage has stone curse, its stone and
arrow time. the mage can also cast a few fb to aid a rogue. the disadvantage
of this set up is u need to retreat a lot. cos there is nothing to stop
the knights. so its hit and run. make sure u 2 know when to run. or use
the alternate method i posted earlier.
rogue & rogue
i feel this is the best combo early on. the key to this combo is not
to hit each other. so positioning is the key. i wont go to the details
of where to stand as many post before had stated this already. basically,
just find a spot that wont hit ur fellow rogues. experiment with it, move
around. or if u r not sure, just stand beside ur partner. then like the
RW combo, u ll minimize the chances of hitting ur partner. when u r facing
melee monsters, use the alternate method, i works! its better than both
retreating at the same time.
well, thats all the tips for now. pls bare in mind that this is for
lower level rogues, so many may not apply in higher levels.
Eaglehorn has 1-10 base damage, +100% damage, and +50% to hit, +60% to hit if you include the dex bonus. Because +damage% and +hit% both occur in the magical prefix, no other non-unique bow can duplicate this mix. That is what makes Eaglehorn so nice. That it's indestructible is icing on the cake.
With my savage bow of the stars, I would estimate I miss about 1 in 10 shots in hell/hell. With Eaglehorn, that drops to about 1 in 20. That's a 5% improvement in total damage, which because my base damage is around 90 (roughly 18x the 5.5 avg base damage of Eaglehorn) means Eaglehorn is really acting like a +200% damage bow.
My impression is that accuracy improves with level, regardless of hit%. When I was around L35, I would put my miss rate at around 1 in 5 vs. 1 in 10 for a normal bow and Eaglehorn respectively. So when I was around L35, Eaglehorn was acting like a +300% damage bow. And by corollary, as my level improves, Eaglehorn becomes less useful. I use the SBOS almost exclusively now.
Rabid Windforce foes :-) will notice this argument also works against Windy. If you miss shots because of the knockback, you are doing less damage. Even you Windforce idolizers have to admit you sometimes miss your target because of the knockback. If Windforce's knockback causes you to miss just 1 shot in 10 more than with a non- knockback bow, you are doing 10% less total damage. If your average total damage with Windy is around 100 points, that's equivalent to 10 points less damage, which is 133% of Windforce's base damage. i.e. Windforce is really acting like a +67% damage bow. That is the price of knockback.
Well, I prefer the MBOH to Windy because of the heavens suffix. The difference in average damage on paper is only a couple points - practically indistinguishable in gameplay. I only argue it for sake of accuracy. Too many people mistakenly think Windforce does the most damage of any bow.
And to answer The-Mule's question, the biggest problem I see with Windforce is in multiplayer games. The knockback messes up everyone else's aim. You end up stoning every target (not a bad idea in itself, but still...), or each person takes a different target (which you can't always do so players end up standing around doing no damage). OTOH, if you get killed because you were swarmed and didn't have knockback, you aren't doing any damage either. I won't try to say which view has more merit - the point to playing the game is for people to try it out and decide for themselves which best fits their playing style.
For the grueling math: Say your base damage is 80. Say you fire 20 arrows. Say with a normal bow, 18 of them hit. Say with Eaglehorn 19 hit, and say with Windforce 17 or 16 hit (you only miss 1 or 2 more in 20 than with a normal bow).
Average damage for a normal long battle bow is 5.5
Average damage for a normal long war bow is 7.5
Average damage for a MlwBOH (L40) is 24.3
Average damage for Eaglehorn is 11
Average damage for Windforce is 22.5
For the 20 arrows fired:
normal long battle bow does 18*(80+5.5) = 1539 damage
normal long war bow does 18*(80+7.5) = 1575
damage
Merciless lw BoH does 18*(80+24.3) = 1877 damage
Eaglehorn does 19*(80+11) = 1729 damage
Windforce does 17*(80+22.5) = 1742 damage
Windforce does 16*(80+22.5) = 1640 damage
An 18/20 hit Eaglehorn would do 1638 damage so the 1/20 extra arrows is a 91 point improvement. Divide it over the 20 arrows and Eaglehorn is doing 4.55 extra damage/arrow. So its average damage goes from 10.5 to 15.05, meaning it's acting like a +174% bow.
An 18/20 hit Windforce would do 1845 damage, so the 1/20 extra miss is a 102.5 point decline. Divide it over the 20 arrows and Windforce is doing 5.125 less damage/arrow. So its average damage goes from 22.5 to 17.375, meaning it's acting like a +132% bow.
For a 2/20 extra miss Windforce, it's a 205 point decline. Divide it over the 20 arrows and Windforce is doing 10.25 less damage/arrow. So its average damage goes from 22.5 to 12.25, meaning it's acting like a +63% bow.
For the 19/20 Eaglehorn vs. 17/20 Windforce, note there's only 13 points difference in damage, or less than one point per arrow. So don't be ashamed to say you use Eaglehorn with "only" 1-10 +100% damage. :-)
Of course there are other factors I'm not considering, like stun, benefits of knockback, and your personal miss rate (there's no fix for bad aim :-). But I think you'll all agree that to take advantage of Windforce's +200% damage, you have to be nearly perfect in aiming through the knockback.
In the course of our character's progress through the game we are often presented with the need to make a choice on which weapon to buy/keep/use etc. In what follows I hope to present a straightforward methodology which allows the comparison of bows based on damage; i.e., other possible beneficial attributes of the bows, such as +magic, +HP, etc., not directly related to the weapon's damage, will not be considered. Attributes which indirectly affect damage by increasing the chance to hit or reduce the target's AC (i.e., +ToHit%; piercing) will be covered to some extent. A lot of what I present will be already known to the old-timers (there are quite a few contributors to this forum that have level 40-50 characters!), but I'll present it all for the sake of completeness.
I. DAMAGE OF BOW WEAPONS
(A). Intrinsic Weapon Damage. This is the part of the damage which is independent of the character wielding the weapon. The intrinsic weapon damage "W" is the weapon's base damage "w" modified by magical attributes (if any), and can be written in the form:
W = aw + b
The base damage is what you see on the screen when you click on the weapon; for example, for a Long Battle Bow it is given as (1 - 10). In what follows, it is assumed that w can be adequately represented by the average of the two end values, so, in this case, w = (1 + 10)/2 = 5.5, and similarly for W. Note that since the program rounds down the end values, W should be rounded down to the nearest one half to approximate this (i.e., W should always end in .0 or .5). To obtain W, any modifiers based on the pre- and/or suffix of the weapon have to be applied.
In the case of bows, the modifiers are in the form of multipliers of
w (sharp-warrior's, jagged-merciless; as in +97% dam, which implies multiplication
by 1.97) or added damage. These added damage terms can be of two
types: ordinary added damage (quality), such as +1 dam; or added magical
damage (burning, fire, lightning, shock, thunder), etc. Magical damage
is really a hybrid type of damage in that it is affected by AC (as shown
in tests conducted by Bostic) and
by immunities and resistances.
Examples:
(Long) Bow of Quality (1-6); +1 dam W = 3.5 + 1 = 4.5
Deadly (Short Battle) Bow (3-7); +50% dam; W = (1.50)(5) = 7.5
(Hunter's) Bow of Thunder (2-5); (1-20) lightning damage
W = 3.5 + 0 = 3.5
W = 3.5 + (0.25)(10.5) = 6.0
W = 3.5 + 10.5 = 14.0
There are three different values depending on whether the opponent is lightning immune, resistant, or normal. (I assume here that resistant means 75% resistance -- in his reply to the draft The Three indicated that his experience tends to confirms this.)
(B).
Character's Added Damage. Another term in the damage equation
of weapons is the character's added damage, which is a function of the
level and attributes of the character wielding the weapon.
Force. To discuss the character's added damage it is convenient to introduce the concept of force. Let the force "F" , in the case of bows, be defined as:
F = lvl x str/2 for warriors and mages
F = lvl x (str+dex)/2 for rogues
(Above is based on damage equations posted by Jarulf, note that, for bows, the force for warriors and mages is one-half the value it has for melee weapons; the force for rogues remains the same.) It will be seen later that as force increases, the character's added damage will become more and more important.
Below are given typical values of force for various levels of the three characters:
level rogue warrior mage
1 25
15 7
10 350
200 150
20 1,000
800 400
30 3,600
2,250 1,350
40 7,600
5,400 1,800
50 9,625
7,250 2,250
MM 12,550 10,250
5,125
The above is based on the beginning and end stats given in a recent
post by Lorax and on some reasonable assumptions on point allocation; i.e.,
by level 30 all would have 90 str to allow wearing of plate, some zodiac
or titan jewelry, etc. MM represents maximum maximorum, the hypothetical
maximum possible value, considering all seven slots filled by the best
items possible (i.e., perfect titans, giants, for warriors and mages; zodiac,
heavens, stars, id'd Gotter, for rogues; remembering that the bow occupies
two slots). It can be seen that, in the case of bows, the rogue is generally
blessed with force, the mage somewhat "force challenged", with the warrior
between the two, closer to the rogue. Also note that weapons with
attributes that increase strength (and/or dexterity in case of the rogue)
will increase force (and hence damage); this is especially important in
the case of bows, since while they lack all but the lowest of the added-damage
suffixes of the quality-slaughter
type (i.e., quality; the most I have seen is +1 dam), they do have
the all suffixes of the strength-giants and sky-heavens type (i.e., +str
and +att).
(C).
Total Damage. The total damage "D" for a bow weapon can now be
defined as
D = W + [F/100]
where F/100 should be rounded down to the next integer.
Range of W. Some calculated values for W are given below (assuming perfect weapons):
Short Bow 2.5
Hunter's Bow of Fire 3.5 - 7.0
Composite Bow 4.5
Warrior's (Long) Bow 5.5
Vicious (Long) Bow of Burning 6.0 - 14.5
Short War Bow 7.5
Brutal (Short Battle) Bow 9.5
Massive (Long Battle) Bow 11.5
Merciless (Long Battle) Bow 15.0
Ruthless (Short War) Bow 15.0
Savage (Long War) Bow 16.5
Merciless (Long War) Bow 20.5
Merciless (Long War) Bow of Lightning 20.5 - 31.5
The last value is the maximum W theoretically possible for non-uniques.
Range of F/100. The range of this term can be readily obtained
from the table above. Some values are:
lvl 10 mage 1.0
lvl 20 rogue 10.0
lvl 30 warrior 22.0
lvl 40 rogue 76.0
maximum (MM rogue) 125.0
It can be seen that by about level 20 - 30, depending on the weapon
used, the second term will begin to predominate. As stated previously,
some bow suffixes add to F; examples are:
suffix max increase in F for rogue
warrior/mage
sky
3.0 x lvl 1.5 x lvl
stars
11.0 x lvl 5.5 x lvl
heavens
15.0 x lvl 7.5 x lvl
strength
2.5 x lvl 2.5 x lvl
power
7.5 x lvl 7.5 x lvl
dexterity
2.5 x lvl 0.0
precision
10.0 x lvl 0.0
perfection
15,0 x lvl 0.0
(where "x lvl" means times the character's level)
It can be seen that the rogue gets her biggest damage benefit from the "of heavens" suffix (also, possibly, for the "of perfection" suffix; I have conflicting reports as to the existence of this suffix on bows). Warriors and mages get theirs from either the "of heavens" or "of power" suffix. It can also be seen that rogues usually get twice, and never less than, the +F of the other character classes.
Hence the most desirable non-unique bow would be a Merciless (Long War)
Bow of the Heavens. However, based on an excellent post by Ironbeard on
Gris price formulae, Rompy determined the bow's cost would be well over
the 140K GP maximum -- so that it can not be bought (and hence won't be
offered). The same applied to the Ruthless (Long War) Bow of Heavens.
Many, including experts like Ðarksniper, think that the best bow that
can be found or bought is a
Merciless (Long Battle) Bow of the Heavens.
Uniques. Some of the best bows, from a damage standpoint, are uniques:
Fleshstinger (long bow), +80% dam; +15 dex:
W = 6.0; +F = 7.5 x lvl, for rogues
+F = 0.0 for warriors/mages
Eaglehorn (long battle bow), +100% dam; +20 dex:
W = 11.0; +F = 10.0 x lvl, for rogues +F = 0.0
for warriors/mages
Windforce (long war bow), +200% dam; +5 str:
W = 22.5; +F = 2.5 x lvl, for all characters
Critical Hits. I remember reading a post (I believe it was from
Blizzard tech support) that stated that each character has the chance of
making a critical hit (double damage?), with the probability (in %) given
by his level divided by 2. Since this would affect all the weapons
equally(?), one should be able to neglect it when
comparing one melee weapon to another. (A term of the type [1
+ lvl/200] should multiply the value of D, if you want to consider this
probability.)
So, the maximum (non-critical-hit) value possible for D for bows is around 150, which is not enough to kill most hell/hell mobs with a single hit. Hence, evaluating a bow weapon simply based on damage per hit is incorrect. It is necessary to consider damage per unit of time, or D/sec. (The only time D/sec would not be important is when (1) the adversary can be killed with one arrow, AND (2) you are only fighting one opponent at a time.)
(D). Damage per Unit of Time. To calculate the damage per unit of time of a bow, we have to know it's firing speed. Varaya and Jarulf did research on this subject; the results in terms of the speed in arrows per second "S" are given below:
Weapons rog warr
mag
all bows 2.22 1.82 1.25
It is important to note that, unlike in the case of melee weapons, the speed only varies with character, and not with weapon used. Tests have shown that the speed suffixes have NO effect on the speed of the bows or arrows (there may be an effect on stun though, this will be covered in a later installment).
So, finally, the damage per second D/sec can be given as the product of damage/hit and arrows/sec:
D/sec = D x S = (W + F/100) x S
This of course assumes that each arrow is a hit (i.e., hit/arrows = 1). This is only true if the character's ToHit% is high enough to assure no misses; otherwise it is an approximation. Note that if one weapon has a significant +ToHit% bonus and the other does not, and the character's ToHit% is not high enough to assure mostly hits, this fact should be considered in the comparison of the weapons. (A similar consideration applies if one of the weapons is of the armor damaging type, since this is most likely equivalent to increasing the ToHit% with each hit.) More on this later.
(E). Summary of Method.
Here, in summary, is the procedure to determine the weapon's damage per second:
(1) Determine the weapon's intrinsic damage W from its base damage and modifiers (see paragraph A).
(2) Determine the force of the character and divide it by 100 to obtain the character's added damage (see paragraph B).
(3) Add the two and multiply the result by the speed (see paragraph D) to get damage/sec. (The last step is not absolutely necessary if comparing bows only within the same character class, but still interesting since it allows cross-class comparisons and with damage done by melee weapons).
(F). Examples. Let me illustrate this by giving some examples listing D/sec:
Typical ranges of total damage D/sec for various bows (assuming perfect pre- and suffixes):
Warrior's (Long) Bow:
lvl rogue warrior mage
20 34.3 24.6 11.9
30 92.1 50.1 23.1
40 180.9 108.3 29.4
50 225.3 141.1 34.3
Massive (Long Battle) Bow of Heavens:
lvl rogue warrior mage
20 54.4 37.3 20.6
30 114.3 70.1 33.1
40 227.5 124.7 40.6
50 254.2 159.3 45.6
Merciless (Long War) Bow of Heavens:
lvl rogue warrior mage
20 72.2 53.7 25.6
30 134.3 86.5 31.9
40 227.5 141.1 51.9
50 274.2 175.6 56.9
Fleshstinger:
lvl rogue warrior mage
20 37.7 25.5 12.5
30 97.7 51.0 23.8
40 188.7 109.2 30.0
50 235.3 142.0 35.0
Eaglehorn:
lvl rogue warrior mage
20 51.1 34.6 18.8
30 111.0 60.1 30.0
40 202.0 118.3 36.3
50 266.4 151.1 41.3
Windforce:
lvl rogue warrior mage
20 72.2 55.5 33.1
30 129.9 82.8 45.6
40 220.9 141.1 51.9
50 265.3 173.8 56.9
Merciless (Long War) Bow of Lightning:
lvl rogue warrior mage
20 92.1 71.9 44.4
30 127.6 97.4 55.6
40 238.7 153.8 61.9
50 283.1 188.4 66.9
(F). Conclusions. Some broad conclusions can be drawn:
(1) Rogues Rule 8-(. With bow weapons, rogues can do far more damage, both on absolute and relative terms, than the other classes. On absolute terms, rogues have the fastest bow speed, and greatest force (and hence ability to do most damage) of the three characters. On relative terms (i.e., same weapon in the hands of a rogue, warrior or mage of similar level), rogues shoot the fastest, and have more force than the other characters.
(2) Selection. In the selection of bow weapons, other factors, beside damage/sec are also important. In the case of bows, ToHit% is very much more important than it is in the selection of melee weapons. This is so because (a) all bows fire at the same speed, and (b) greater distances to the target are usually involved. This means prefixes of the "sharp - warrior's" and "bronze - strange" classes can be very important. Most likely suffixes of the "of piercing" and "of puncturing" type have a similar effect as they supposedly lower the target's AC.
Also, since two of the top bows are uniques, and the third one is "of
Heavens" (i.e., +All), their other attributes are also important in selecting
between them, as are individual playing styles. Many posts on choosing
between these (and other bows) have been made by experts in the field such
as ÐarkSniper and John; many
of these posts are available in Varaya's archives.