Last modified: 20.1.1998
Underrated Tips - by tino
Experience Points - by Mike O'Brien (Blizzard)
Mob HP and Resistance Table - by Lok(Snakegod)
Base damage (and other stats) - by Jarulf
Fire Wall - the most important low level spell
- by Code Myster
More underrated tips - by tino
One more tactic for the butcher - by Diatima
A theory about weapon speed - by Varaya
Weapon speed (Bows) - by John
Spellblocking - by The-Mule / DevourerOfSouls
/ Cauldron-Born
Guide to spell classes - by The-Mule /
DevourerOfSouls / Cauldron-Born [man, get a shorter
name ! :-) ]
Bows of Swiftness - by Varaya
Diablo Seeding Theory - by LadyBadea
re: Diablo Seeding Theory - by ÐarkSniper
Bare Naked Ladies: AC test w/rogue - by Van_Damned
Basic Butcher Bashing 101 - by Pete
I'm sure you've seen some of the thousand or so posts on 'How to Kill the Butcher', or 'How to Distribute Points', but every once in a while you find a real gem. Here are some tips I read from other people (I don't remember the authors on all, so in fairness, I won't name any, but you know who you are).
(1) - If you cast quickly, you can get off 'bonus' spells before running
out of mana. This also works with staffs. For example, your
staff of charged bolt has 1 charge left. When the time comes, cast
quickly and you'll get 2 bolts! This is really good just for beginner
mages. Once you get the mana shield, the extra cast isn't worth bringing
your shield down.
(2) - This is my favorite. When you are getting gang-banged and
you are trying to cast a spell, hold down the right mouse button rather
than clicking like crazy, you're more likely to cast the spell this way.
(3) - The gist of this is 'Monster's visibility is proportional to
your light radius', or in layman's terms 'if you can see them, they can
see you'. This was part of a larger post describing 'stealth mode'.
While stealth mode isn't for me, the knowledge that what you're equipped
with can affect monster's behavior was a real eye opener (ahem).
(if I lost you, light radius bonuses = bad)
(4) - Opening moves. This is most important for solo mage play.
Before going down the stairs, have mana shield prepared. Upon entering,
cast the shield, then cast a town portal away from the stairs. If
you're on a level where Illusion Weavers may be lurking, you may want to
sound off a chain lightning or 2 as well.
(5) - ? I can't remeber what 5 was, but I'm sure it was a good one.
Hope these come in handy, and thanks to those who discovered them!
Anyone who does damage to a monster, and is still alive and on the same
screen as the monster when he dies, gets a share of the experience for
that monster.
The amount of experience you get for killing a monster of a certain
level goes down as you gain levels, so that eventually there is no reward
to you for killing very weak monsters. However, there is also a maximum
cap for how much experience you can get from any one kill, and that cap
increases as your level increases.
I have filled in some of the holes in this table, and checked most of the mobs personally now (paticularily the nightmare hell and hell cats-hell mobs). There was a mistake in the previous table- hell difficulty hell spawn are IRI not RII. Adapted in part from http://www.gac.edu/~gkemmetm/diablo.html
Form is Fire/Lightning/Magic (R)esistance or (I)mmunity followed by average hitpoints. A dash means no resistance.
Creature Normal Night Hell
Balrog:
-----------------------------------------------------------
Slayer
I-R 130 I-R 490
I-R 720
Guardian
I-R 150 I-R 550
I-R 800
Vortex Lord
I-R 170 I-R 610
IRR 880
Balrog
I-R 190 I-R 670
IRR 960
Chargers:
-----------------------------------------------------------
Horned Demon
--- 60 --- 280
R-- 430
Mud Runner
--- 65
R-- 480
Frost Charger
-RI 80 -RI 340
-RI 520
Obsidian Lord
-RI 370 III 560
Clan/Goatmen:
-----------------------------------------------------------
Flesh Clan
--- 38 --- 203
--- 350
Fire Clan
R-- 58
I-- 380
Stone Clan
--I 390
Night Clan
--R 288 --I 450
Drakes:
-----------------------------------------------------------
Cave Viper
--I 125 --I 475
--I 700
Fire Drake
R-I 145 R-I 535
RII 780
Gold Viper
-RI 160 -RI 580
-RI 840
Azure Drake
RR- 180 RR- 640
RII 920
Fallen Ones:
-----------------------------------------------------------
Fallen One
--- 3 --- 108
--- 210
Carver
--- 6 --- 184
--- 228
Devil Kin
--- 20 --- 160
R-- 272
Dark One
--- 28 --- 184
-R- 312
Familiars:
-----------------------------------------------------------
Fiend
Blink
--- 20 --- 160
--- 270
Familiar
-IR 28
-IR 310
Gloom
--R 32
--R 328
--R 328
Hidden:
-----------------------------------------------------------
Hidden
--- 16 --- 148
--- 264
Stalker
--- 38
--- 325
Unseen
--I 370
Illusion Weaver
R-R 50
R-I 400
Knights:
-----------------------------------------------------------
Black Knight
-RR 150 -RR 550
-RR 800
Doom Guard
R-R 165 R-R 595
I-R 860
Steel Lord
IRR 180 IRR 640
IRR
Blood Knight
RII 200 RII 700
RII 1000
Overlords:
-----------------------------------------------------------
Overlord
--- 70
R-- 480
Mud Man
--- 113 --- 438
-I- 650
Toad Demon
--I 148 --I 543
-RI 790
Flayed One
I-R 180 I-R 740
I-I 920
Scavengers:
-----------------------------------------------------------
Scavenger
--- 114 R-- 218
Plague Eater
--- 154 -R-
Shadow Beast
--- 190 R-- 320
Bone Gnasher
--R 34 --R 202
-R- 336
Skeletons:
-----------------------------------------------------------
Skeleton
--I 212
Skeleton Captain
--I 114 --I 218
Corpse Axe
--I 6
--I 222
Corpse Bow
--I 12 --I 136
--I 248
Burning Dead
R-I 10 R-I 130
I-I 240
Burning Dead Cptn
R-I 21 R-I 169
I-I 292
Horror
-RI 30 -RI 190
-RI 320
Horror Captain
-RI 43 -RI 228
-RI 370
Spitters:
-----------------------------------------------------------
Acid Beast
--- 53 --- 259
--I 412
Poison Spitter
--- 73 --- 318
--R 490
Pit Beast
--R 95
-RI 580
Lava Maw
I-R 125 I-R 475
I-I 700
Stone:
-----------------------------------------------------------
Magma Demon
R-I 60 R-I 280
I-I 440
Blood Stone
I-I 65
I-I 460
Hell Stone
I-I 70 I-I 310
I-I 480
Lava Lord
I-I 78
I-I 510
Storms:
-----------------------------------------------------------
Red Storm
-RI 83
-II 530
Storm Rider
-IR 90
-II 560
Storm Lord
-IR 105
-II 620
Maelstorm
-IR 120 -IR 460
-II 680
Wings:
-----------------------------------------------------------
Winged Demon
R-I 258 I-I 410
Gargoyle
-RI 75 -RI 325
-II 500
Blood Claw
I-I 100 I-I 400
IRI 600
Death Wing
-II 120 -II 460
RII 680
Witches:
-----------------------------------------------------------
Succubus
--R 135 --R 505
R-I 740
Snow Witch
-R- 155 -R- 565
-RI 820
Hell Spawn
-IR 175 -IR 625
IRI 900
Soul Burner
IRR 183 IRR 648
III
Wizards:
-----------------------------------------------------------
Councelor
RRR 310 RRR 480
Magistrate
IRR 85 IRR 355
IRI 540
Cabalist
RIR 120 RIR 460
RII 680
Advocate
RII 145 RII 535
III 780
Zombies:
-----------------------------------------------------------
Zombie
--I 117 --I 222
Ghoul
--I 9 --I 127
--I 236
Rotting Carcass
--I 20
R-I 280
Black Death
--I 33 --I 198
-RI 330
The damage for a Rogue is the same regardless of the weapon. For warriors and Sorcerers it is halved when using a bow.
Melee damage for Sorcerer and Warrior: Strength*level/100
Bow damage for Sorcerer and Warrior: Strength*level/200
Melee and Bow damage for Rogue:
(Strength+dexterity)*level/200
Add weapon damage to that (bare hands do 1 damage and a shield 1-3
damage).
To Hit (all classes): 50+Dexterity/2 (%)
Armor class (al clases): Dexterity/5
Warrior
Life: 20+(level-1)*2+Vitality*2
Mana: (level-1)+Magic
Rogue
Life: 25+(level-1)*2+Vitality(base)+Vitality(items)*1.5
Mana: 7+(level-1)*2+Magic(base)+Magic(items)*1.5
Sorcerer
Life: 10+(level-1)+Vitality
Mana: (level-1)*2+Magic*2
After spending a couple of days creating new chars and taking them down as deep as I can (in a single, multi-player game, NO restarting!) I can honestly say that the most incredible spell for low level chars has to by FAR be the firewall spell. With it you can not only kill creatures, but kill them while protecting yourself. Healing spell is nice, but not required. Same with Holy Bolt, Firebolt, Charged Bolt and lightning. Once you get Firewall however, you can instantly storm the depths of the Cats and even Caves (using caution) with a low level char. It's use is simple, for creatures that attack from a distance, cast walls to kill them, for creatures that attack at close range, fall back slightly and cast walls bordering you at diagonal angles such as in the following diagram:
\ /
X \/
X /\
X/P \
X/ \
/ \
(X's represent creatures, the P represents the player and the lines represent firewalls).
It is amazing how fast a firewall will kill creatures, even a level
1 firewall. By casting them directly around you, you protect yourself from
attacks while the creatures die from the flames (you will still get hit,
but the creature standing in the flames taking damage will get off no more
than a hit (or two but rarely) before succumbing to
the flames. Firewalls beauty comes from the fact that if multiple creatures
come to attack you, you have protection against all... for the cost of
limited mana.
In every new char I create, it's always difficult to get going... until
I get a firewall spell. Once I do, level up's come very quickly as I am
able to decend extremely deep into the dungeon (BTW: The deepest I have
been able to go, non-stop from start to finish without restarting is from
level 1 in the church to level 16 in Hell).
This post is pretty much common knowledge among the more seasoned players,
but if any newbies need help, this is it. Get a firewall book at all costs...
then enjoy the game! (well even if you dont' get firewall, still enjoy
it... it's a hell of a game!)
OK, I was inspired by finding out that at least one person read and liked the last group of underated tips, so here's a couple more:
(5) - If Stone Curse misses, there is no mana lost. This can be useful if you are exploring without infravision (especially in the caves). If you're not sure if a monster is lurking around the corner, cast SC and watch your mana ball. If it doesn't go down, then you're safe. If it does, you know there is at least one monster there, which is now stoned, which isn't a bad idea anyways.
(6) - Fast potion refueling! Put the cursor over the potion you
want to buy. With one hand click, the other, press return...click,
return, click, return...it really is fast (thank you Mr. Ferry).
The way I deal with the big ugly joker as a rogue or mage, sorry warriors,
is a variation on the town portal, let him kill you then restart in town
trick only, hopefully:)
without dying. Find that grate wall with an unblocked door and cast
town portal inside the room away from the butchers place of residence.
TP should be cast well back from the door. Let mean ol butch chase you
into the portal. You want him to be close. Take the steps back down, walk
over and shut the door. Butch = pincushion. Or baked butch for mages. This
tactic avoids not being able to close the door in time when trying to beat
him into the room. Happy hunting.
I am really positive about it - when you compare a normal bow and a bow with a + to speed, there is the same # of arrows per second. You see it, you hear it. Nevertheless, I like John's theory about the hit (now talking about swords) "coming faster" when you use a sword of haste vs. a sword of speed. Same "swing rate", but the hit comes faster - which allows you to get out of stun earlier, but does not improve anything when you are _not_ stunned. Sounds plausible to me. I once compared a KSOH with a KSOS with my lvl 40+ warrior and I did not notice any difference in actual play in hell/hell - maybe because he was not stunned that often. This would, of course, be an advantage which could only be felt when you are playing "right on the edge", i.e. when you get stunned really often. When your char is good or the enemies are not that hard, you would not feel any improvement.
Concerning Warriors+Bows: The weapons with speed improvement remove
frames from the animations, we all know that. But I don't think that this
is the case with bows. Look at a warrior shooting a normal bow. Or, even
better, a mage. Lots of frames, really smooth :-) Now take a Bow of swiftness.
I have looked real close, but I did not notice any missing animations.
With a sword, it is real obvious that some frames are left out. Hmmm ?
Maybe bows work differently from hand-to-hand
weapon, in that the advantage is not faster shooting, but "better"
(earlier) shooting. As John said, this would not give an advantage when
measuring shots per second or damage per second, but it would help getting
out of stun. Sadly, it is real hard to measure this.
This theory came already up some time ago, and then I posted my thoughts about it. IIRC, I posted some diagrams like these:
#----------#----------#
a.)
b.)
This is a normal weapon. a.) is the "preparation" phase, then comes the swing, then b.), the "reload" phase.
Now imagine three attackers - A, B and C:
A B
C
#----------#----------#
A would hit and interrupt the swing. No hit accomplished by the player. B would also hit and interrupt the strike. C would hit _after_ the character had hit and dealt damage.
Now imagine a weapon which had the same "swing rate" (swings/second), but a lower "preparation" phase:
#-----#---------------#
a.) b.)
The overall swing rate is the same, but the hit is delivered sooner.
So, this time the three baddies A, B and C would look like this:
A B
C
#-----#---------------#
A would hit and interrupt the swing. But this time, B would hit _after_ the damage was dealt by the player. That is, if B would have hit and prevented the character from getting out of stun with the first weapon, this time the character would manage to get out of stun.
Big difference when compared to a weapon which is _really_ faster: The
overall time for the swing is the same. That is, when you are not hit by
the monsters (or at least not that often that stun is a real problem),
you will notice absolutely no improvement over a weapon of lower "Diablo
speed" (e.g. sword of haste compared to a sword of speed).
[...] To summarize: In his weapon timings, Varaya found no speed difference between swords of haste and swords of speed. Similarly he found no difference between normal bows and bows of swiftness. Nevertheless, people really think there is a difference. We've had a couple theories put forth as to possible differences.
Theory 1: Haste vs. speed. Haste swords hit sooner in the animation sequence than speed swords. However, the length of the total animation sequence is the same for both, meaning they both swing at the same rate. [see diagrams in post above] Note the number of animations in both sequences are the same, meaning the swing rate (which Varaya timed) would be identical for both swords, even though there *is* a practical difference. I like this theory, mainly because we have unrelated but supporting evidence - everybody agrees that phasing casts "sooner" than teleport, yet the casting rate for both spells is the same. This is exactly the type of difference that's being postulated with haste vs. speed. Testing it will involve seeing if a haste sword can get you out of stun-lock situations where speed cannot. Note that the only benefit is keeping yourself out of a stun - because the animation sequence is just as long as a sword of speed, both swords deliver damage at the same rate.
Theory 1a: Harmony items. I just made this up. If we follow the reasoning behind the haste theory, the stun sequence with an item of harmony will visually appear to last as long as without one. However, you will be able to begin swinging/firing/casting sooner in the stun animation than if you didn't have such an item.
Theory 2: Invisible arrows. There may be only one animation sequence for a firing arrows. So even though your bow of swiftness has fired (say) 6 arrows, because it's using the same animations as a normal bow, the game only draws 5 arrows. I don't like this. It sounds like a programming nightmare. Instead of each arrow being a separate object with its own trajectory, speed, and animation, you now have to link several arrows together with animation sequences that don't necessarily match. How do you account for arrows shot in different direction (sweeping a room)? How come people haven't noticed monsters being missed by arrows (given a very high hit%), or hit by unseen arrows when using bows of swiftness?
Theory 3: Faster arrows. A bow of swiftness fires arrows
that travel faster than normal arrows. I vaguely seem to recall someone
posting they tested the needler and a normal bow side by side (2 rogues)
and saw no difference in the speed of the arrows. But I still like
this theory. We know spells can travel at different speeds (fireball
goes faster as you gain levels). And we know there's a Rift bow which
fires arrows that travel at different speeds so the capability to produce
arrows with
different speeds does exist in the game. And given that speed
is an intrinsic quality to an arrow, it'd be really easy for the game to
say "oh, this is an arrow from a bow of swiftness, so it has xx% better
chance of getting past that fast-block shield." Note that while the arrows
may travel faster, the rate they're fired at and hit the target remains
the same as with a normal bow. You do gain some accuracy because
there's less time for a target to dodge, but the damage rate is identical.
So if this theory is correct, a bow of swiftness is more like a strange
bow than a sword of haste. To test this, take both bows down to L16.
Find a long corridor. Put
either an advocate or a volunteer player at one end, and put yourself
at the other end. Fire down the hallway and time how long it takes
from when you fire to when you hear the arrow hit. I don't like testing
bows side by side with two players because I've noticed the game doesn't
show other players at full animation speed (e.g. I almost never see other
rogues/warriors firing/swinging as fast as me. c.f. theory 2 - this
difference in animation rate with actual events causes lots of jumps which
everyone is familiar with).
Well, I just completed a little experiment to test the merit of spellblock
VS resistance. Here's what I did: I created a game in Nightmare difficulty
with my best character at the moment, The-Mule. Just for reference, he
is level 40 (level plays a part into dodging magic) and was using a Stormshield
(in tower form, if that affects
anything) for the test.
Happily, the first thing I stumbled upon was a group of Snow Witches. I killed all but one, and then proceded to let the Witch pound me without flinching for thirty seconds. About half of the shots hit me, do a fair amout of damage. I then refilled my mana ball and took off all the things that give magic resistance, which included my weapon and armor, in addition to all rings and amulets. I did the same thing, and this time only one of the shots connected (I imagine none of the shots would have hit me had I not taken off my armor).
I now put everything back on and began moving - but in such a way that the shots would hit me. The effects of the resistance, of course, gave me the same results for this thirty second trial as well. Finally, I stripped down again, and for the next thirty seconds, was pounded on. When I was moving, the shield would block none of the shots (we all know this - famous advice for combatting cheating rogues =). So I took considerable damage during this time.
[remark by Varaya: It is also important to note that - when you have zero resist - spells count as physical attacks, i.e. your equipment gets damaged]
The results are fairly straight forward - resistance is far better,
since the shield is useless when moving or attacking. This is a fun little
consept, but is still inferior to what we have all know to be true - resistance
is best. I didn't test this in an exactly scientific way - there were multiple
uncontrolled variables. I could have tried it with all three classes, used
a shield without fast-block, etc. but I didn't think that was necessary
for fairly accurate results. Hope this is helpful to someone - I just didn't
want people to run out with no resistance and get blown away =) Thanks
much...
Here is the breakdown of all spells, listed by class...
Fire Based
Firebolt
Inferno
Fire Wall
Elemental
Fireball
Flame Wave
Guardian
Lightning Based
Charged Bolt
Lightning
Chain Lightning
Magic Based
Flash
Bone Spirit
Blood Star
Special Attacks (Bypasses All Immunities)
Holy Bolt
Golem
Nova
Apocalypse
Special Effects (Bypasses All Immunities)
Telekinesis
Town Portal
Stone Curse
Infravision
Identify
Special Defenses (Bypasses All Immunities)
Healing
Heal Other
Mana Shield
Ressurect
Phasing
Teleport
Skills
Recharge Staves
Repair
Disarm
About the Bows of Swiftness: Some time ago, somebody posted a theory that the arrows of such bows would fly faster. Some of the "arrows" on screen would be left out, like that :
( x--- = arrow)
normal bow:
x--- x--- x--- x--- x---
swiftness:
x--- x---
x---
Well, since I started a new rogue and since she is offered lots of bows of swiftness now, I tried them out. If you are playing on a dungeon level with really dark background graphics (like the cats for example) and if you look really hard, you can distinguish the arrows on screen. They look something like a white line with a red spot (the "feathers") on the left end. If you shoot parallel to the upper/lower screen border, you will see a white line which is interrupted by the red spots:
x---x---x---x---x---x--- (etc.)
So, if the bow of swiftness would "skip" some of the arrows (so that the arrow would fly faster), its line would have to look like
x--- x--- x---
Well, it doesn't. I checked whether the "arrows" were longer/shorter
for either bow, but they are exactly the same (I used one bow, looked where
two of the "red spots" were and memorized that position, then equipped
the other bow and checked). I even checked how long it took for an arrow
to fly across the screen.
No difference there. Maybe the difference between a bow of swiftness
and a normal bow is something like the difference between a sword of haste/sword
of speed which we discussed recently: It helps getting out of stun.
[remark: I have included this as an example for the many theories about seeding out there. As long as we do not have access to the Diablo source code, we will never know how the game decides which items you will get in a given game. The theory presented here is not necessarily true, it is simply an example of what might be]
I thought I would start this off by stating something relatively obvious and therefore not very controversial. Kind'a ease you into this. Diablo seeding is a hotly debated topic and many people claim that it is TOTALLY random, others that it isn't. I fall into the category that believes it isn't random. What I've attempted to do though is explain why it APPEARS to be random and I've made a few guesses as to what we can do to weight the seeding in our favor. I think patterns can be discerned from the chaos.
Here is the basic tenant of this theory's development: If you eliminate the impossible, then whatever is left, no matter how improbable, must by definition, be possible (ok, so it may not be applicable but it'll still be possible.).
One other point. I think that it is REMOTELY possible that some unique element of one's computer could be used in the seeding...since I don't readily have multiple computers to work with, I've had to make an educated guess that it isn't very likely. If it is true, then my database is worthless. That is potentially a damning "if" though.
I've done a lot of testing using both static and non static characters. For the most part (but certainly not all) I've kept a log of where I've found or bought almost everything (well, since about level 35 or so). The list is rather extensive but also limited in that I play almost exclusively now in Hell since I don't want to risk anymore enchanted shrines to raise my spells any further.
Some definitions for point of reference:
Drops: Item from a monster kill. You killed it (or someone in the game) and the item was seen or heard to drop.
Bought: From either Wirt, Griz, or Adria.
Found: A find from one of those rooms. An armory, a weapons room, or just one of those open rooms where armor, weapons, jewelry, or uniques are sometimes found on the floor.
Chest Find: Self explanatory. It came out of a chest that you opened.
Barrel Find: Came popping out of a barrel when you hit it.
Good Items: Awesome, Strange, Zodiacs, Heavens, Stars, Obsidian, Jade, etc. Any single category that is positive but isn't in conjunction with a prefix or suffix.
Quality Items: Items that have both a "positive" prefix and suffix. Obsidian Zodiac for instance. Jade Heavens, Kings Haste, Saintly Plate of Sorcery, etc. You get the idea.
Perfect Items: A quality item that is perfect in both categories. A Dragons Zodiac that is 60/20. :)
Impossible Items: Any found/dropped Godly item, Kings Bow, etc.
NOW SEEDING 101.
Rule #1: The game "wants" to give good drops but the programmers established a set of restrictions to prevent it. Those restrictions are mitigated by a number of factors. The fact that the converse could be true doesn't necessarily make this a moot point because of a later rule (rule #2, Incremental Enhancement).
Factors affecting Rule #1:
Dungeon Level: Probably the biggest determinate in the level of
drops. I think that everyone is in agreement that better items are
found in hell than church. More than the level being used in the
seeding though, I think it is a factor of the higher the level (numbering
1-16) the more the "rules of restriction" are relaxed. The restrictions
that prevent you from receiving a quality drop in church are relaxed (but
never eliminated) as you move into hell.
Difficulty Level: I think this plays a small part albeit a potentially
critical one in regards to the impossible finds. First the impossible
finds are going to be EXTREMELY rare in any case but may require that hell/hell
be running before even the possibility is allowed, at which time
you then have your opportunity with the
almost infinite dice role of chance. Though I have no proof
of that, it's just a feeling based on what I've seen. I think
it has little to no influence on quality items or perfect items.
Character Level: Obviously this plays an important part in the frequency of quality items that you experience. But again, like the dungeon levels, I believe it is more of a lessening of the restrictions than anything else. The possible exception to that is the belief that a "sweet spot" in character level is in the game, whether on purpose or through happenstance is unknown. Supposedly levels 38-40 are coded to allow the best finds. From my own perspective, I can say that everything my Rogue wore was swapped out between 38 and 40, in a run of about 2 weeks.
Monsters: This is a hard coded element in the seeding of a drop. It's programmed into the game and directly contributes to the quality of a drop. I am certain of this next statement. Blizzard has divided the monsters in the game into categories. Particular categories of monsters are programmed to give better drops. That is true even in monsters found only in hell. Now, I don't mean the obvious like a Snow Witch is in the same category as a Succubus, or that a Steel Lord is the same as a Doom Guard...the bottom line is that certain types of monsters are considered to be of a higher level than others...the higher level monsters give better drops. Uniques are weighted to give better items more frequently.
Date Seeding: Plays a factor. Here is why it does and why
I think it is so controversial. It is a fact that certain days are
better than others. I think Blizzard uses the system date as
a part of the game seeding. After eliminating everything else, I
keep returning to date. Now, I do not believe that certain dates
are hardcoded
to be better than others. If that were true, then there
wouldn't be the controversy that there is surrounding this topic.
The date though in conjunction with other "seeding factors" produce
magic numbers that seed the game with quality items. It's most likely
the date combined with the experience points of a character. So as
character experience level changes so does the magic date. I know
the date is used because I can use a test system and a test character
and with certain dates I can produce very similar sale items from
Griz, almost identical sale items. The key here is that when you
hit a magic date for your character...play the hell out
of it. How do you know it's a "magic date"? Griz will have
multiple items for sale with both good prefix/suffix.
Rule #2: The game uses an incremental counter (or enhancer, if you will).
Kill Count. I'm not sure this actually has a lot to do with anything. Although it may play a factor (I can't disprove it), I think it is actually something else that is going on. What I do, is run the game continuously. I go from game to game without ever exiting Diablo. I've had as high as nearly 200 games without Diablo exiting (game defined as Level 13 Hell through Laz). That over several weeks. What I think happens is this. Some incremental counter exists. That counter ensures that you receive better drops in hell than in church. It also tends to ensure that as your character moves up in level you get better items. Just as kill count carries over from one game to another, the incremental counter continues to increment. It was probably never intended to deal with so many continued games so there is no fail safe put on it. It just keeps merrily incrementing the last level of "quality" it had reached. Further relaxing the restrictions, if you will. This is probably the single biggest factor available to us as players to really influence the quality of items we receive. It isn't unusual that I will get 2 to 3 uniques just in Laz's chamber. Once, I got NLP, RC, and Eaglehorn at the same time. 3 unique drops. I'm having to build back up to that now as my B.Net system (with LadyBadea) crashed not too long ago. But, it's getting better.
Rule #3: All things are not created equal.
Chests/Barrels: In the categories of monsters that I mentioned above, barrels rate higher than chests. Chests actually are pretty much on par with low level monsters in regards to item generation. Barrels, on the other hand, are of a higher level and have the potential to produce higher quality items than chests. The common sense spin on this point about barrels is that most of them explode causing many people to get tired of busting them. So, I guess what I'm talking about here is "pain level". Persistence will be rewarded. Although chests will more often produce an item, the potential for quality items is better from barrels.
Rule #4: The pot of gold is always at the end of the longest road.
Finds: This is where the best items in the game will come from.
Although not a certainty, I think that the rarest of items can only be
found. Those that come from inside those rooms. Those that
are just found laying about. Unfortunately, it's also where some
of the biggest junk can come from and this is directly related to the
"embedded" characteristics that I spoke of earlier. In respect
to this category, I'm guessing that the process goes something like this:
(1) Program seeds at the beginning of a game. (2) All unique monsters
get an item to drop. (3) Each category of monster gets something
to drop. (4) Check seeding factors and randomize the quality of those
monster drops. (5) Place stuff in chests and barrels. (6) Check
seeding factors and randomize the quality of those finds. (7) Will
there be a room? (8) Yes...ok, will there be something in it?
(9) Yes...ok, will it be magical. (10) Yes...ok, will it good or
of quality? (11) etc.. The point of this is that those rooms
go through the longest process of determination. Every unique monster
drops SOMETHING...every monster category drops SOMETHING...every "set"
of chests drop SOMETHING...every "set" of barrels drops SOMETHING.
The rarest of items (to begin with) are going to be those found.
When, after determining that something will be found, the game actually
places something in one of those rooms, it then has a slight percentage
chance to make it something spectacular. This ties into my belief
that the programmers used a similar system in these found items that they
used in the idea of "critical hits". Meaning that there is a step
in the seeding where the "critical hit" of items is applied to make something
perfect or not. The percentage is low but I believe the process works
like that. This would also
explain why it is POSSIBLE to acquire a quality item in Cats or Caves.
Rule #5: Some characters are luckier than others (or is it predestination).
Character Luck: I can't explain this but some characters seem
preordained to find certain items. Over and over. I can make
an educated guess based on what I know so far but that's all it is.
I suspect that Blizzard has assigned a unique number to each character,
the combination of that character's "number" in conjunction
with other seeding numbers makes certain categories of finds much more
likely. The seeding generator "likes" some numbers better than others.
It is also highly probable that the unique number is derived from the character
name. The game seems to prefer A-F. LadyBadea is constantly
finding or getting drops of magical
(or mana) enhancing stuff like, wizardry, dragons, drakes, sorcery,
Royal Circlets, NLP, DreamFlanges, TC's, a fairly good collection of zodiacs,
a nice collection of obsidian, and an ungodly number of Demonspike
Coats. On the other hand, I've never found an Obzod, nor a Bastard
KSOV. Go figure. (This leads to a question: If an obsidian
ring is placed on one side of a Plate of Osmosis and a ring of zodiac
on the other...does it change into an obzod?)
Rule #6: B.Net Treasure hunting just doesn't cut it.
The best stuff, in my experience, comes from off-line normal/hell adventuring. The best thing I've ever found on B.Net is a TC and a Windforce (and that last one is a dubious "best item" :)). This is purely my experience and obviously may not apply to you.
Rule #7: The players and the programmers don't agree on what is "the best".
I'm fairly convinced that the programmers consider "of the ages" to
be a high level item in the game. I know that I don't and probably
most others would prefer other suffixes like harmony, sorcery, you
name it. So, the next time, that you find an Awesome Plate of the
Ages in one of those rooms in Hell, believe it or not, as far as the game
is concerned, you've just been rewarded big time. If you think about
it, it makes sense. As we all know, the game was first designed as
a single player game, and gold is much scarcer there than multi.
If any of you have ever had to repair a King's Sword of Anything that had
gone down over 45 points of durability
(as I had to do the other day after Hell/Hell), you know that repairing
those sorts of items is VERY expensive. Items "of the ages"
were therefore seen as a significant item. What I think anyway.
Recommendations:
So how does this disparate set of "rules" apply to normal play?
Well, here is what I do. I run Diablo as long as it will stay stable.
I have no hesitation of starting one game after another if I see (on the
first level) monsters that don't have a high pay off potential (Balrogs
are an example of "low potential", SoulBurners are "high potential" in
non-unique monsters.). If after a few games of normal/hell and I'm not
finding anything worth keeping then I'll play a couple of hell/hell games
to radically
change my experience level and then go back to normal to check things
out again and repeat as necessary. When I hit a magical date (magical
as in Griz is selling quality items) then I'll play the hell out of that
play date. All normal hell...as many Laz runs as it's possible to
do. At my current level of 41 LadyBadea stays stable in
normal hell since she no longer receives experience there. Level
41 doesn't seem to be too good for me (other than purchases from Wirt)
so I'm getting ready to do a push to 42 and check that out. I think
42 will be better (because the game AGAIN "seems" to like even numbers).
I know this is long, but, these "rules" seem to fit what I've observed.
LadyBadea has been extremely lucky for me, especially, in regards to unique
items, and magical stuff. In fact, I think there are only three uniques
that I've not found...the Defender, the Rift Bow, and the Helm of Sprits.
So with those and the elusive obzod
calling to me, I'll be playing Diablo for awhile yet.
first off great post! it was long, but i guess im used to it by now. (aahz trained me well) i like ur ages theory, never realy notice that. i guess one of the reasons we both find good stuff is because we both do the same thing. but heres a couple seeding theories that u didnt mention.
1) the name, the computer (anything personally).u did cover this, but
i ll elaborate on it. this is something that no one can copy. especially
the computer part. i think it might uses the win95 regis code as one of
the components for randomizing as well. and example, i found 8 RC, yet
a lot of regular players said that they havent even
found one. but then again, like u, i ve never found a oz, while code
has ozs coming out from his ears. i think name and computer is one major
part. think about it. maybe there r some items that will only (not to that
extent) be generated in one computer. and this would encorage trading in
Bnet. this is the only reason i can think of that we cant find gpow. maybe
a specific, maybe and registration number with the last 3 digits of 333
will get a gpow in their game. or something like that. who knows, maybe
gpow does exist in multiplayer. (singles game is different as we all know)
2) the going into a game naked theory. this is kinda like the level theory. see, when ur level 29-35 (thats my sweet spot btw), u generally have worse items than when ur in level 40 or something. so the fill in the slot theory comes into play. if they see u need resist, the game will generate a high chance of obs, ruby, dimonds... items. or if u dont have a bow, it ll drop u more bows. this also explains the mages find bows, rogues finds staff and warrior finds whatever theory. cos since a mage doesnt carry a bow, the computer will generate more bows for him. thats why a rogue gets offered aa staff so early in the game, i saw my first aa staff when i was 25. but i still havent seen an eh or wf yet. (my new rogue btw) so try to go in a game with stuff u dont want but put stuff u want in ur inv. this works for me.
in conclusion, all these theories, r theories. it DOES NOT work everytime. it mearly increases ur chance of getting a better item. so i dont want anyone to complain that they tried everything and still cant get anything after one game. try more! and then if it still doesnt work, change ur name to DarkSniper =), if it still doesnt work, buy a new computer. (a toshiba laptop if u want 8 RC =)
I've done some more testing on Armor Class last week. The most definite conclusion: AC reduces times you are hit. ;) ...role-playing again.... Okay, we knew that already. But there were some interesting things....
So far, I'm testing only a 1st level rogue standing still against a
single mob, in this case a scavenger. I altered the AC by using Raymond's
to alter the Dex from 2 to 250, giving various AC's from 0 to 50.
I used no armor or shield. I'd count the number of swings until I
got hit, and would go for about 110 hits for each AC I
tested. (This is a small sample for lower AC, but adequate for
the higher. I plan to do more tests at the lower AC's.) The
AC's I tested were 0, 6, 11, 17, 28, 39, and 50.
I don't have the numbers here, so I'm going by memory based on my conclusions. I will post numbers (after more data is collected) later if necessary.
Findings:
-Reduction of hit% does indeed seem to be linear, i.e., (x - AC)% where x is mob's to-hit% (see more on this below, however). The base to-hit of a scavenger seems to be around 45%, despite some sources saying it has a 62%. The source for the 62% is http://www.sfu.ca/~alaric/main.htm Maybe you get a 15% bonus for standing still...
-As expected there was a minimum to-hit %. Having AC39 was as
good as having AC50, both giving a to-hit of about 8%. [I expect this 8%
can be lessened by hero's level, since we know level affects mob's to-hit.
The first round of tests I did several weeks ago suggested a reduction
of 1% for every 2 levels attained
(for rogue), which was also mentioned by the site listed above (for
all classes, but I suspect was tested only for warrior). I will test
levels later.]
-A scavenger's first swing after a hit has a higher % to hit. Okay,
that's because you're stunned, you say. But this is even after the
scav sits still for a moment and the "stun" graphics have stopped.
It may be that for a 1st level hero the effect of stun negates the benefit
of standing still even after the stun time is over. Anyway,
scav's improvement for swing-after-hit seems to be 5%.
-It seems like a scav's miss will by followed by more misses. I had several instances of the scav swinging over 50 times before hitting, despite an overall to-hit% of 8%. The times that would be the most likely to finally get a hit were when the scav stopped attacking for a split second. It may be that the multiple-swing-attacks that all 1st level monsters have will have a normal to-hit swing follow by lesser to-hit swings. Ugh. Even zombies have multi-swings.
So, it may not seem like this has contributed much to our knowledge of AC, but I'm trying to exclude as many factors as possible, so we know what the basic formula is. Once I am sure of the formula for a certain mob versus a hero (rogue in this case) I can then test for the effects of level, movement, swinging, harmony, blocking, etc. Something that occured to me during testing is that it is possible that to-hit% might be depend on whether you are facing the mob or have your back turned! Jeez, now I have to retest all over again.... Why devote so much time to a dying game? I think they'll use the same combat system in D2 so I have a year to figure this out. Assuming my SO doesn't sneak up on me while I'm Diabloing and brain me with a blunt instrument.... (if I had a brain, that is)
I’m assuming a newbie player and a low level (around 6) character, either single mode or normal solo-multi. Higher level characters should have this figured out ;)
Make sure you have levels 1 and 2 completely cleared out (except for the Butcher, of course) for the experience points, equipment, and, on level 2, room to maneuver. Then there are four tactics you can use:
The Purist (a.k.a. Suicide):
Fill your belt with pots (full health for warriors and rogues, full
mana for mages). Put some more pots (10 to 20 should do) all around
the outside of the Butcher’s room. Cast a Town Portal not too
far from the Butcher’s door. Stand in front of the Butcher’s
door. If you’re playing single mode, this might not be a bad time
to
save your game :) Open the door. If you’re
a warrior, start hacking. Watch your health, and guzzle a pot as
needed. Odds are you’ll run out of pots before you
run out of Butcher. Click on one of the pots you dropped earlier.
As soon as you get to it, click on another. The idea is to pick up
the pots as you run from the Butcher. When you’ve got about four
on your belt, let him catch up (won’t take long :D ) and go back to hacking
him. Repeat as needed. If you run out of pots (or nerve) use
the Town Portal to bail out.
For the mage or rogue, things are a little easier. Shoot or cast
a couple of times as soon as you’ve opened the door. Then start
retreating around the Butcher’s room. The technique is run, shoot/cast,
run, shoot/cast, etc. The mage will probably have to guzzle all his
pots and pick some up (like the warrior). The rogue
may not even need one if she does a good job of staying ahead.
The Town Portal is your parachute, use it as needed, but remember that
the Butcher will be partially or totally healed when you get back. An aside
for the mage: the Butcher is not undead, so Holy Bolt does nothing to him.
Hot key Firebolt and Heal, toggle as needed. For the rogue: stay
off the shift key, it slows down target acquisition. Just make sure
you’ve got the Butcher targeted when you click his way.
Even for an experienced player, these methods sometimes fail in single and usually fail in multi. About the only plus is that you get some practice in playing your character and even the most rabid anti-cheater will admit these are *fully* legal [g].
Butcher Bake:
This tactic, and the next, work because the Butcher can’t open doors. Find or buy a scroll (two would be better in multi) or staff of Firewall. Stand right in front of the Butcher’s door. Open the door, cast Firewall right inside the door, then close the door. Wait for the death scream.
You have just enough time to do this before the Butcher gets to the
door. If he gets there before you close the door, you’ll have to
fall back on one of the other methods, so it pays to have Plan B ready.
Also, if your coordination is like mine, you might want to find another
door someplace and practice a bit till the 'left
click (open), right click (cast), left click (close)' is fast, smooth,
and the door closes every time. One Firewall has always been enough for
me in single mode.
In multi, sometimes the Butcher outlasts the fire. In this case, you have to open the door to finish him off. You can fall back to Plan B, or you can cast another Firewall right where he’s standing and go toe-to-toe with him. Since he’s already been hit pretty hard by the first Firewall, and he’s picking up more damage from the second, he isn’t going to last long, and a few pots of health should see you through.
A really quick person might be able to cast two Firewalls before closing the door the first time. This would double the damage the Butcher takes and should guarantee a kill in multi. I’ve never been fast enough to do it though : (
Grilled Butcher:
For this one, you need to find a door next to a grating. The door must *not* be blocked (be sure to check this). Preferably, the rooms on either side should be pretty large (more on this later), but take what you get. As usuall, start by opening the Butcher’s door. When you get the 'Fresh meat', start heading to your selected door. The timing here is a little tricky. The idea is for you to get through the door and close it with the Butcher on the other side. If you get too far ahead, especially if you go around a few corners, you’ll lose the Butcher and will have to go back and get him. If you let him get too close, you woun’t be able to close the door when you get through it. If this happens and the room behind the door is big enough, you can lead him on another chase and try again. If the room is too small, figure on getting hit bad.
When you’ve gotten yourself on one side and the Butcher on the other, you can cut him down with a ranged attack. For the rogue, this means a bow. For the mage, cast your best spell (most damage per mana). The warrior can use either or a combination of both. The Butcher will constantly move from side to side, so expect to miss a lot. Extra pots of mana for the mage, an extra bow for the rogue, a couple of extra bows and the repair skill for the warrior are probably going to be called for. (I’ve never tried Firewall through a grating. If it works, it should be ideal since the Butcher will just walk in it. But if you’re going to use Firewall anyway, just use the Butcher Bake method).
I’ve seen a variation on this tactic posted, but it will not work in single mode. Basically, find your door with a grating. Go into the room, drop all your gear, cast a town portal, leave the room and *shut* the door behind you. Now go open the Butcher’s door and lead him to just outside your chosen room. Let him kill you, restart in town, then down the portal. You and your gear are on one side of the grating, the Butcher is on the other. This eliminates the tricky timing of getting the door shut. Never tried it myself, but it should work just fine.
Other suggestions I’ve seen were to open the Butcher’s door with Telekinesis and/or get into your room with Teleport. I’ve never tried either of these, don’t think any of my low level characters ever had the ability.
The U Trap:
Besides not being able to open doors, the Butcher has another
major weakness. He will not move away from you to get around an obstacle.
So, if you can get him into a U shaped obstacle, with you standing outside
the base of the U, he will just stand there and stare at you. I’ve
done this a few times when I’ve found a bunch of
barrels that I could 'sculpt' into a U. But there’s a built in
U in every game, the stairs leading down to level 3.
As usual, start by opening his door. Lead him to the U, then run in a tight circle around the U till he gets trapped. I found that it’s better to click on the next corner of the U than it is to try to drag the mouse pointer around it, but your mileage may vary. Once he’s safely trapped, use a ranged attack as described for the Grilled Butcher.
This method has some advantages over the others. It doesn’t depend
on close timing. And the trapped Butcher stands still, so the
number of hits you get on him goes way up. Some 'purists' claim that
this method is cheating. I don’t understand their reasoning, since
this method just takes advantage of the Butcher’s
limitations, not of some bug in the game. And the 'in real life,
he would have gone down the stairs' argument can best be answered with
'in real life, I can’t cast a Firebolt!' (And if we could move barrels,
instead of just bashing them, we wouldn’t need the stairs). Except
as noted, I’ve used all these tactics successfully in single
and solo-multi games with low level characters. Other ideas I’ve
seen posted are to use Stone Curse, Golem, and/or Guardian spells. Any
of these would probably work, but I’ve taken about 50 or 60 characters
past the Butcher and I think that none of them ever had those spells at
these levels.